Brake seizing on

[Wolvesamongus]

My brakes have been pulling left for a week or so but today seized on but released on pulling away, and so the wheel of this weekend I think.
I am thinking that for peace of mind to change all four brake cylinders and the three flexi pipes, I know some say if it's not broke don't fix it but the bus is 26 years old and so the brake components have been on a long time although there is only 7,000 Km on the clock and so the shoes should be OK, cost of 4 cylinders and 3 flexi brake pipes at Mercedes here in the UK £334.00 or 426.69 euros Ouch but what price safty.

[Arno Z]

At first try i'd limit the work to an inspection, cleaning and adjusting the brakes. Check for extensive (or uneven) wear. Check if the braking cylinder rubbers are clean and intact. Also check for oil-leaks and greasy dirt build up.

But do replace the flexible lines, these are known to act as a 'Tesla Valve' after many years of operation.

After venting the brake lines re-assemble and re-adjust. Do some test driving and if you think it is fine drive down to your favorite MOT station and do some brake testing.

[Wolvesamongus]

Hi Arno, thanks for the reply, the Bus passed it's MOT just three weeks ago brakes all good and in balance, they started pulling two weeks later and so I adjusted them up to no avail, yes I will inspect over the weekend before deciding, incidentally I could reduce the parts cost by half if I go for patent parts but not sure of there quality.

Regards-------Kim

[Admin]

The original brake cylinders aren't made by MB either, but are OEM products like ATE, FAG and the like, just like the ones you buy in third party shops or on the Internet.

But, like Arno said, as long as there is no fluid leaking from the cylinders (look under the rubber dust covers) there is no need to replace them.

[Wolvesamongus]

Thanks guys, started today backed of adjuster hub spinning freely but didn't want to come away from spindle so have to get a puller on it Urrrrrr is this normal?

[Arno Z]

Shouldn't be (as far as i know) Did you maybe put the spinner too tight when assembling last time, accidentally damaging the bearings and locking them in place?

Is yours a 508 or 608?

[Wolvesamongus]

It's a 508d ex NATO, this is the first time I have removed the wheel the green paint is still on the nuts unmarked so I guess this is the first time in 27years.

Regards-----Kim

[Admin]

Maybe it's the same paint that keeps the wheels in place ;-)
I remember from my military service that maintenance was carried out with grease, oil and paint, even if a vehicle hadn't run one mile in the last three months!

[Wolvesamongus]

Lol, I'll WD 40 the studs where they come through the hub and give the hub a firm tap with a heavy hammer, I don't want to buy a large expensive puller.

Regards-----kim

[DVIII]

whatever happens I never , or maybe once had to use a puller , it's the one I also use for VW van's the disc with the adustable arms that bolt on to the studs, anyway if retracted properly the brakeshoes should give way to remove the drum , you know it's a drum and bearing in one ! , one time the handbrake lever was stuck and there was no way i could get it back , the puller ruins your attachment and sometimes the retainer springs . if requiered i'll put some on the mail . just operate cool and use the brain before braking the brakeparts. and like Arno says , replace the flexlines , they are a real surprise especially if some noob used a clamp to close them during maintenance. do not assume you are the first one there , good mechanics leave no traces of anykind

[DVIII]

rereading your story , you do not know it's one piece do you , to get the drum off , you have to undo the bearing, the whole thing comes off . this is not a TK bedford !!

[Wolvesamongus]

rereading your story , you do not know it's one piece do you , to get the drum off , you have to undo the bearing, the whole thing comes off . this is not a TK bedford !!

Hi David This is the front wheel I'm working on, grease cap of spinner undone lock washer and back washer of, the hub spins freely because I backed the adjuster, so there is no contact with shoe to drum.
All the bolts screws bleed nipple and backplate are still fully coated with very thick wax oil never had a spanner on them the bus only had 002500 on the clock so never been worked on I would think.
As said WD40 on the studs that look a bit light rusty at point of exit from the hub and a firm tap should do it when I get time, thanks for the spring offer if I ever need them.
Regards------Kim

[DVIII]

if the funny bolt is off (allen key) , the washer comes off then the bearing rollerholder comes out , then the hub comes off , a gentle wooden sledgehammer can make the difference (like the wife says) . I thought you was headin south by now ,

[DVIII]

if you want to undo the anchour plate , the bolts inside do not coóperate in that matter , they'l turn against you , bummer !

[Wolvesamongus]

if you want to undo the anchour plate , the bolts inside do not coóperate in that matter , they'l turn against you , bummer !

It won't come to that me thinks, I was due to go away at the end of October when my youngest son 37 years old with who I worked with part time installing wood burners Hit me with a guilt trip, like Dad if you go away now I will lose thousands of pounds and I might have to have a career change, I'm like are you serious, anyway to cut a long story short I can't now get away until the end of March, the things we do for our children, but hey! If I had gone away my brakes would have been very problematic.

Regards--------Kim

[DVIII]

the curse of the woodburners , would have stopped you haw haw . but serious, march is a nice time to part the good old albion . the things we do are not always logically explained . but the cause of the seize up is probably A the flex pieces and second the condensation in your cilinders . actually the new ones are not very expencive

[Wolvesamongus]

I have a few days clear soon so can then get on the case, I will dismantle and inspect each brake the flexi pipes are on order the rear pipe has to come from Germany ordered through Mercedes here in the UK, as you say patent cylinders are cheap if needed about 28 Euros each I think Mercedes wanted about 50 Euros each ouch! But as informed they buy them in.

Regards-----Kim

[Wolvesamongus]

Finally got to dismantle the front brakes today one side the cylinder shows rust under the dust cover but not leaking, the other side is leaking and the shoes are soaked, there is no wear at all on the shoes so out with the baking soda and boiling water as suggested in another post.
I have been trying to find replacement cylinders there are Pagid ones on eBay but only show rear which I will also replace even though I have not inspected yet, but judging by the front they will need doing, are the rear cylinders the same as the front?
Regards----kim

[DVIII]

so that makes a good discovery after all , if you cant find replacement cilinders , don't wait to ask i can send them over in a blitz , and yes the rear and front are the same , altough there is a difference in year , old vans have 22 mm (thats 7/8 's) and newer vans have 22 and a bit , i once used the small ones in a new cilinder and they turn to leak afer a week or so. . but good to see you're van does the same tricks as the ones over here . beware of the rust in your cilinders it cuts like a knife in the rubber parts .
Trigger says hallo !

[Wolvesamongus]

Thanks Trigger, So If I order four rear ones It will be OK for the front, I will have to check the size if I can find a reference for the ones advertised for sale that is.
I just checked the Ad no size given just says Pagid rear wheel cylinder for Mercedes T2/LN1 508d.
I just read your last post again I think there is a slight misunderstanding I am replacing the cylinder complete not overhauling them.
Just found out the internal bore for the Pagid ones 15.9mm so no good but they are listed as good for 508d T1/LN 1986 on, I will have to measure mine in the morning.
Regards-----k

[Wolvesamongus]

I have spent hours trying to source the wheel cylinders today other than from Mercedes to no avail so ordered from them 3 brake flexi pipes 4 wheel cylinders £311.00 or 387.00 Euros ouch! needs be needs must.

[DVIII]

that must hurt , i could have send you the same order for less than 200 euro ( i'm no trader) , but noblesse oblige i'd suppose , last week i was lookin around for a waterpump on a 352 , half a day several times on the phone saved us 120 euro , now thats a nice diner in a fancy restaurant .

[Wolvesamongus]

I guess parts are very much easier to source and much cheaper for these Busses in Holland, I ended up baking the shoes in the oven 280c for 30 minutes they came out like new, man it stank the kitchen out big time but the wife was cool with it.
I hope to get the brakes all done by the end of next week my Son is working me hard, so much for retirement, enjoy your meal with the money saved lol, have a good weekend.

regards-----kim

[Wolvesamongus]

New flexi pipes and cylinders done but for some reason the drum will not go fully back on it's about 15-20mm short, the brake is adjusted fully in and the drum goes on very easy and spins freely it just won't go on that last bit, the thing is it's hard to get off again even though it spins freely no rubbing on the shoes and when I finally do pull it of there are no marks on the shoes Urrrrrrrrrr any ideas, this a photo of the said brake.



Regards---Kim

[Fvd]

Hi, i changed mine last week, rear axle, i paid 125 euro for each set, so 250 total

For that price i have brand new cilinders , the shoes also new, mounted, it was a revision

Thats cheaper then brand new from mercedes, and these will do the job the same way,maybe thats something to consider